Monday, February 12, 2007

Climate Change Conference Call with Ken Cohen, ExxonMobil Vice-President for Public Relations

This afternoon I was lucky enough to be part of a conference call of left-of-center bloggers with Ken Cohen, Vice-President for Public Relations at ExxonMobil. We got together to discuss ExxonMobil's shifting position on climate change. The other bloggers on the call were Robert Farley from Lawyers, Guns, and Money; Matt Stoller from My DD (his write-up on the call is here), Julie Marsh from The Parental is Political, and Mark Nickolas from Bluegrass Report.

ExxonMobil has the reputation of being the most important corporation against the idea of human created climate change. Cohen takes issue with this, but it's legitimate. As huge supporters of the Bush Administration and funders, both past and present, of organizations devoted to fighting these ideas, ExxonMobil has done great damage to the efforts to fight climate change.

ExxonMobil claims that their position has been severely misrepresented and that they are in fact leaders in creating new climate-change fighting technologies. This conference call is part of their effort to change their public image. Rather than recap the whole phone call, I am going to cover a few points I think are particularly important concerning the call, ExxonMobil, and climate change.

1. ExxonMobil's Public Image

As I just mentioned, ExxonMobil has long funded organizations that support people like Sallie Baliunas, an astrophysicist connected with at least 9 ExxonMobil funded organizations. She produced a 2003 paper denying climate change. She was rigorously attacked by real climate scientists yet until recently, her work was used by ExxonMobil. Dr. James McCarthy, former chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has said of ExxonMobil, "It's shameful that ExxonMobil has sought to obscure the facts for so long when the future of our planet depends on the steps we take now and in the coming years."

Ken Cohen takes exception to this characterization of his company. Yet, while it may be true that ExxonMobil has given a lot of money to researching better technologies that would wean us off our petrochemical economy, it is impossible to deny that their image comes from their own actions.

To give them credit, they stopped funding the worst climate change deniers, such as the Competitive Enterprise Institute, at the end of 2005. But at the same time, they still fund the American Enterprise Institute, who recently offered scientists a $10,000 reward to dispute parts of the new Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change 4th Assessment Report, which stated that there was over 99% certainty that humans are the root cause of climate change. I asked Cohen if it was appropriate for a company who claims to be fighting climate change to fund such an irresponsible organization. His response was that ExxonMobil had nothing to do with this action and that their funding is less than 0.5% of AEI's operating budget. Even if this is true, it does not let ExxonMobil off the hook from secondary responsibility. While many companies give money to AEI, not all of them have reputations as climate change deniers, nor do all of them directly contribute to climate change like ExxonMobil. If ExxonMobil is serious about fighting climate change, the first step they must take is separating themselves from groups like AEI if they insist on denying climate change.

Second, ExxonMobil must take a more pro-active stance in promoting the importance of fighting climate change. Matt asked Cohen if ExxonMobil would begin a PR campaign to fight climate change. Doing so seems like a great idea. It would accomplish actual good and it would serve to improve ExxonMobil's reputation. Yet I did not get any sense that Cohen was inclined to push for this activity. They seem to think that promoting new technologies and distancing themselves from the worst of the deniers is enough. And it is most certainly not.

2. Politics

Of course, another way ExxonMobil could improve their public image is to lobby Republicans on climate change. ExxonMobil has long been an enormous supporter of the Republican Party, with approximately 80% of their political donations going to Republicans. Moreover, they have been huge contributors to the Bush administration. Their influence on the party cannot be overestimated. Coming out openly and attacking James Inhofe and other climate change deniers in Congress would be a huge step and would gain ExxonMobil massive public credibility on this issue. Cohen claims that they are talking to Republican members about climate change. I'm not sure how to take that. What seems quite clear to me is that even if ExxonMobil is not actively fighting climate change ideas at this point, it is very low on their priority list.

Cohen said that they had trouble finding Democrats they could support because ExxonMobil believed in free markets, blah, blah, blah. I find it quite hard to believe that a Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Bill Richardson, or Barack Obama presidency will destroy the fortunes of this giant corporation. And boy, that Bill Clinton era sure was disastrous to American business! Despite the partisan absurdity of Cohen's statement, it tells us a lot about ExxonMobil's priorities. They are going to continue supporting Republicans because they want unregulated energy exploration and to pay minimal taxes. This is what drives ExxonMobil's policy. Climate change is clearly far, far below these two things on their priority scale. Ultimately, they don't seem to care enough about climate change to make any real changes in their political donations or lobbying.

I understand that ExxonMobil is a corporation and that entity exists to make money for stockholders. But in order for us to take them seriously on climate change, they need to make it an equal priority to the profit motive--or at least in the same ballpark. As I stated above, they could solve a lot of their image problem if they made the right political moves. They could, for instance, tell James Inhofe, publicly or privately, that if he makes one more statement saying that climate change isn't happening, that not only will the company not give him money for his reelection campaign, but that they will fund his Democratic opponent to the fullest extent within the law. If a Democratic lawmaker centered his public image on attacking ExxonMobil's profits and lobbied for a high tax on their profits, you can bet the farm that the company would do everything in their power to destroy that politician. Until they take similar steps on climate change, their words ring hollow.

The larger point here is this. If ExxonMobil really wants to become leaders on climate change and to create a new image, they could take real actions. But right now, it seems to be a whole lot of words and not a lot of action. Defunding the climate change deniers is a good first step and should be noted. But it is not enough, especially considering the company's past actions. They have the power to create real political change around climate change but I didn't hear anything today to make me think they cared enough to make that happen.

3. The Moral Imperative

Matt kind of went off on Cohen, claiming that ExxonMobil's recent turn was politically motivated. Cohen responded that Matt thought this was some kind of moral issue.

I thought that was the key point of the conversation. Climate change is a moral issue. Any meaningful action on climate change must contain a deep moral conviction for two major reasons--1) It is such a huge problem that it will take great commitment to fight it and 2) the transformation of the Earth that climate change will create means that anyone who cares about the future of the human race and the planet's environment must take action. Climate change cannot simply be tackled with slight policy shifts. That will do nothing. It is going to take massive political will, the willingness to forego profit for a while, and changes in the production and consumption of everything humans use every day. Anything short of that will at best slightly delay climate change's effects and more likely do nothing at all.

Right now, ExxonMobil clearly does not feel that climate change has a moral side to it. It's just another policy to them. Now, you might say that they are a corporation and thus are immune to moral-based actions. But for ExxonMobil and many other corporations, low taxes and free market ideology clearly have a moral component to it. Thus, when corporations find it in their interest, they show all the moral outrage of the most committed activist.

What Ken Cohen and ExxonMobil need to understand is that climate change is the most important issue of the 21st century. With each passing year, the effects become more obvious and the damage to humans, animals, and plants become more severe and irreversible. Unless the corporation, and the rest of the petroleum industry for that matter, become committed to fighting climate change with everything they have, human society as we know it will change radically. I'm not much of an apocalyptic guy. But the changes will be so massive--rising sea levels, droughts, floods, hurricanes, desertification, crop failures, insect infestations, wildlife depletion, heat waves, etc., etc.--that everything we know about this planet is in jeopardy.

Climate change is a moral issue. ExxonMobil, despite their recent policy shifts, are far away from prioritizing it as such. Until they do, they will continue to lag in efforts to fight the problem and their reputation will rightly suffer.

4. Conclusions

ExxonMobil does deserve a bit of credit. They are finally listening to basic science. They have defunded some of the worst climate change denying organizations. They are reaching out and trying to say that climate change is a problem. These are useful baby steps.

But they have far to go. Not only must they make climate change central to their lobbying and funding priorities, but they need to work on reversing the environmental problems they have personally created that are exacerbating climate change. An excellent example of this is the destruction of the Louisiana bayous by shipping lanes for oil companies. These bayous used to shelter New Orleans from the worst damage from hurricanes. We saw what happened to the city when those bayous could no longer serve that functions. With climate change creating more severe hurricanes, those bayous are necessary for the survival of Louisiana. ExxonMobil needs to act on both the primary and secondary causes and effects of climate change and act upon them. Until they do, it is hard to take their talk as much more than empty words.

ExxonMobil is one of the world's largest corporations. In 2006, they made $39.6 billion in profits. That is $4.5 million each hour. They have the resources to become true leaders on climate change. We should criticize them for their past actions. But those don't matter much now. There's nothing that can be done to reverse the past. What matters is what ExxonMobil does from this day forward. They have the power to make real change. Their reputation, both in the present and the future, rests on the choices they make right now.

30 comments:

  1. What a fucking great post . . . Glad you had a chance to do this.

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  2. Thanks. Stay on top of them. Obviously, we cannot trust them.

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  3. Anonymous8:59 AM

    What an extra-ordinarily long post that could have summed up in one sentence: "I want to complain about the oil industry, free markets, and the Republican party."

    We all know that the real culprits to any man-made contributions to global warming are us, the people. We desire ever more energy-using devices with our cars, air conditioners, furnaces, and even the computers to read this blog. XON simply supplies us with the means.

    Like all corporations, Exxon funds over 80 thousand employees with wages, salaries, healthcare, retirement and pension funds, and funds many charities such as George Bush's Malaria Initiative, which provides medicines to African nations.

    The $37Billion in profits were earned on a huge asset base of $370.7Billion that results in a profit margin of about 10%, which actually trails that of most other industries such as banks, pharma, software and services, household products, and real estate. Also, the change in the price of gas has gone up less than consumer items over the last 25 years despite the sensational headlines of today.

    Democrats have an awful record of wanting an unjustified slice of corporate profit, and Exxon has every right and obligation to fulfill its role in a democratic society by funding the political parties of their choice. Just look at the top 10 Political Action Committees in the US and their contributions:
    EMILY's List $22,767,521
    Service Employees International Union $12,899,352
    American Federation of Teachers $12,789,296
    American Medical Association $11,901,542
    National Rifle Association $11,173,358
    Teamsters Union $11,128,729
    International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $10,819,724
    National Education Association $10,521,538
    American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees $9,882,022
    Laborers' International Union of North America $9,523,837

    Most of these are unions (read Democratic party) and the #1 PAC is a Democrat pro-choice abortion rights advocacy group.

    In the end, XON has no obligation to fund the green movement or the Dems, and I don't think you'd have a problem with Exxon so much if they funded the Dems more than the Republicans.

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  4. Anonymous9:59 AM

    After careful consideration of anonymous' comments, we have chosen to plug our ears and keep blaming the right. And quit driving. Yeah, let's quit driving.

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  5. hey exxon, aka anonymous...
    we might not have as big of problem (as in one-millimeter of a millimeter less) with exxon if you funded democrats more, but i can certainly promise you that i would have a helluva bigger problem with the democrats.

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  6. Ummm...when I want to speak for myself, I'll speak for myself, thanks.

    And I haven't driven in 6 months -the benefits of public transportation. How's Exxon's funding of public transportation for cities in the U.S., to cut down driving?

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  7. Anonymous11:25 AM

    Public transportation funded by private companies? Damn right! And it's about time Walmart started paying for my kids' school lunches, damn their evil ways.

    Let's just stop driving, working, producing, hell, living, so this damn planet can finally cool down some.

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  8. As Mr. Trend and I wonder why you right-wingers comment here instead of blogs that matter, allow me to say that if you read the post Anonymous, which clearly you did not, that I did not say that Exxon needed to support Democrats per se. What I said is that if they are serious about battling climate change that they will attack politicians who deny climate change. Those are usually Republicans, but by no means are all Republicans this stupid.

    Also, even Cohen stated that climate change was a gigantic problem that needed huge attention and action. So for those of you who are laughing at climate change and the idea that we need to take immediate action, congratulations on being to the right of ExxonMobil on the matter.

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  9. Anonymous1:49 PM

    This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  10. Anonymous7:00 PM

    hey, you keep deleting that guys comments.

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  11. Anonymous10:03 PM

    Erik, I read your post all the way through, but more importantly I read between the lines. You didn't need to dismiss the shareholder profit incentive, which is the raison d'etre of corporations, as how did you say, "blah, blah, blah"? You didn't need to mention the XON's profits either if you really thought your argument was just about climate. It showed that you don't understand the mechanisms of the economy.

    Everyone can see that no single person or even corporation has the ability to affect the climate from any perceived ethical or physical standpoint, rather it is the collective of human activity. But countries don't play by the same rules, pollution control isn't enforceable, and noone is willing to reduce their energy demands. And in the US, public transport doesn't pay for itself outside of NYC, so that won't fly. So, I just don't see how you can pick on and villify XON when it's a greater issue than that, and it makes you libs look anti-business, but after all that is your platform.

    You mention being "right of Exxon" as something horrible. Whatever - you probably couldn't even define what that means - I sure can't but who would lose any sleep even if you could pen it for us?

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  12. Hey Anonymous -

    Just to clear up your lack of business understanding ... being anti-Exxon is not the same as being anti-business. You peg yourself as pretty clueless when you conflate the two.

    Hundreds of thousands of American businesses have been hurt the last few years by high gas prices. Exxon's fault? No, but by opposing measures that would reduce these costs- measures which, by the way, are profitable - Exxon has inserted itself squarely in the position of obstructionist.

    I disagree with this blogger that fighting global warming means giving up profits and slowing down the economy. That's an ignorant comment, Erik, and I hope you'll take it back. The solutions to climate change - new energy technologies, energy efficiency, plug-in hybrid or all-electric cars, etc . - are already making a lot of people a lot of money and creating jobs in the process.

    What Exxon really opposes isn't the science of climate change, it's competition and fully-functioning, properly regulated free markets. The stooges who defend Exxon are post-modern communists, fearful of decentralized control of our energy system and desperate to protect the nanny-state corporatism of energy giants.

    Guess what, Anonymous: you lose. There are too many of us. The fact that this is a hard truth is borne out by the fact that giant Exxon has to reach out to a bunch of tiny bloggers to deal with their image problems.

    Not to belittle the owner of this blog - he's done a great job covering the issue here - but what does it say about Exxon that their VP for propaganda has to take time from his day to talk to a bunch of bloggers? To my analyst eyes, that's a sign of desperation, not confidence in one's position and future.

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  13. Mateo,

    There is definitely profit-making potential in fighting global warming and I didn't mean to say that there wasn't. I think the larger issue is for them to pump enough money into research and development of new technologies, as well as donating a lot of money to fix these secondary climate change issues they have caused, to cut down on profits in the short term, with the potential to reap major benefits in the years ahead. Long-term--whoever develops functional and mass-produced alternative technologies is going to make a whole lot of money.

    As for Exxon talking to the blogs, I think you are right to some extent. Their public reputation has taken a severe beating over the last several years, not that it's affected the bottom line. The conversation I was involved in was at least the 2nd Cohen has done. They are trying to change their public image and are reaching out to bloggers because they rightfully see this form of media as a way to change opinion. However, their choice of blogs, at least in this conversation, is suspect. It's not as if this is a major blog so I don't know what they thought they would gain out of talking to me or most of the other bloggers on this call. The first conversation seems to have revolved around environmental law blogs, which makes a lot more sense.

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  14. Erik,

    Well said. Though I'll admit my free market bias and suggest that Exxon is entitled to its profits, just as much as they're entitled to future obscurity if they don't get with the program - there are plenty of companies ready to step up and make a lot of money on these new technologies, and we don't need to wait for Exxon to come around to get started; we need them to get the f*** out of the way. Right now, they are obstructionists opposed to competition, and should be addressed as such.

    I, for one, do not look forward to a company with the moral vlaues of Exxon owning a big slice of the clean energy pie. I'm hoping they're the next Ford Motors of U.S. industry. Let them eat cake.

    In re: bloggers, I hardly get info from anywhere but blogs anymore, mostly because I find the blogs to be more accurate than other media; but Exxon is HUGE, and whether they're talking to a relatively major or minor blog (all blogs are beautiful, Erik! ;>), it's an intersting strategy - they might reach a few tens of thousands of people with their message, but since blogs are dominated by a relatively small number of natural-born skeptics, their lies are only likely to backfire.

    As is the case with you, because you clearly are smarter than the average reporter for oh, say, the New York Times. I hope you stay on their rolodex, and keep posting the results of their efforts; I smell fear on Exxon's part, and that's a good thing.

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  15. Anonymous10:01 AM

    I've conversed with some a$$backwards people before but this has to rank near the top. You still don't get the fact that in a free market environment, you DON'T need to dictate actions, policies, or regulations as the market will sort out where resources need to go by itself. If alternative energy is where the money is then the money will follow without any nutjobs trying to force reallocations.

    Congratulations on failing Economics 101 and thanks for playing.

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  16. And you don't have a clue about what a free market really looks like - or how about hopping on the bandwagon that wants to revoke the hundreds of billions in subsidies we pump to Big Oil?

    No? Didn't think so.

    I sense that the GOP concept of a "free market" really means "free support for the industries I like, and bullocks for the rest of you."

    Typical Republican. Thank YOU for playing. Now, since you seem to have misplaced yours, let me offer you a clue:

    If you agree that we should drop ALL energy subsidies - including hidden subsidies like taxpayer-funded protection of oil shipping lanes in the Gulf, coddling and expensive diplomatic boondoggles with the Saudis, tax breaks for bullshit write-downs like "marginal wells" and "untraditional drilling techniques," and the biggest B.S. of all time, "royalty relief" (which is really a euphemism for "free rent"), I might suggest that we can drop some of the regulation of the market. (Notice I didn't even mention the billions wasted in health care costs every year because of pollution-related illness from the under-regulated air quality market).

    But you would never agree to that, because a level playing field decimates the fossil fuels industry. Using full-cost accounting techniques that includes these very real and very measurable subsidies, a barrel of oil costs the American taxpayer - today, in today's dollars - well over a hundred dollars.

    (At this point in this conversation, the typical conservative sticks their fingers in their ears and shouts "NA NA NA NA NA I CAN'T HEAR YOU NA NA NA NA ....")

    Conservatives throw around the concept of "free markets" all the time, as if they would know one if it smacked them in the face. To quote a famous Spaniard, "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

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  17. Anonymous12:16 PM

    i know, i know and you probably oppose hunting but eat meat and wear leather, you also use energy but can't figure out where these pesky emissions come from, and you probably want to tax gas to fund liberal projects while simultaneously complaining about high gas prices. what a good Democrat you are.

    Here's the truth: Oil receives far less generous subsidies than its competitors in the alternative energy and mass transit industries. Just look at the Energy Information Administration reports on energy subsidies and you'll see that oil gets the smallest subsidy than all other fuel industries. Renewable energy got twice the amount of oil subsidies.

    You also cannot show that the costs of oil consumption such as pollution exceed the sum of gas taxes and pollution regulations imposed on the oil companies and consumers.

    You think oil should pay for a competitor's R&D? Good job Mateo, let's trade one subsidy for another. You're brilliant! Again, thanks for playing, but no prize for the loser.

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  18. I grew up in Colorado, own a 30.06 and took a eight-point elk above the San Miguel River last fall. Would send you a steak, but you're not worthy. And I'm sick of wingers like you assuming Democrats can't shoot, though I'd welcome a more direct, to-my-face insult on the topic.

    I think high gas prices are fine because people are willing to pay them. I have no problem with oil industry profits, I just hate subsidizing them at the same time.

    My utility in San Francisco has the lowest emissions profile in the U.S. because it has the highest renewable resouce base in its portfolio. I know exactly where my emissions come from, as they're profiled in my monthly bill.

    And that little tidbit about EIA is a plain bold-faced lie. You made it up. I've worked in energy economics for about a decade, and your statements are just laughable. The Department of Health and major research institutions have done dozens of peer-review studies showing the direct health COSTS of air pollution.

    But you do seem to be a typical conservative, which is reassuring. Just be grateful that liberals also support the endangered species act, else your future would be bleak, indeed.

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  19. Anonymous, I'm sure that Econ 101 class you took in college really gives you a lot of legitimacy in discussing these matters.

    I'm not too concerned that your knowledge of economics matches mine. Everything you say proves this.

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  20. Anonymous3:07 PM

    Mateo,

    I did not make anything up. Here is the link to the source:

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa390.pdf

    Sure, renewables reduce emissions, but they do currently cost more per BTU than traditional fuels.

    It is quite amusing to think of a lib with an '06 in San Fran no less. Just be glad that we conservatives support your second amendment rights so you can take elk.

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  21. Anonymous3:13 PM

    Erik, I seriously doubt that you could even complete IRS Form 1040EZ...seriously. Why don't you be a good boy and go and write another post about social injustice (yawn) and how the world's ills are due to Republicans, capitalism, and white Americans.

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  22. Anonymous -

    So I'm supposed to look at a Cato institute screed, written by a "policy analyst" for the American Petroleum Institute, as the last word on energy subsidies? Joke, right?

    You said your information was from the EIA, which, as I said, was made up. You must really think you're surrounded by suckers.

    And while my low-emissions electricity in San Fran does cost about 5% more than my high-emission counterparts in Texas, it's a wash because the utility bought me a new refrigerator and light bulbs that reduce my energy consumption, thanks to effective decoupling of utility profits from electricity sales.

    Let me know if you want an economics lesson in what that means to graduates of Econ 101.

    You've been drinking the cool-aid on just what, exactly, a "San Francisco liberal" is - in general, we are the world leaders in technological innovation, the domestic capital of venture capitalism and the highest value-per-dollar labor market in the United States.

    Put simply for you: our workers produce more economic value per person than any other workforce in America. That includes you.

    Not that any of that matters to the anti-free-market forces within the GOP who are protecting the oil industry at all costs.

    When the Republic party is ready for capitalism, let me know. As long as you continue to defend nanny-state support for fossil fuels, you're a communist, no two ways about it. Get rid of the subsidies, and let's see who wins.

    And a lot of us "liberals" hunt and fish, too. Conservatives don't have the corner on the 2nd Amendment, my friend. Howard Dean has a 100% rating from the NRA, as does John Tester, Bryan Schweitzer and a host of up-and-coming Democrats. I owe nothing to the conservative movement for my gun rights; my rights come from being an American, and I've never been afraid that anyone would take my gun; not even close.

    Only whack-job wingnuts think that any U.S. politician seriously wants to end our right to hunt. There are 15 million hunters in America, but only 2 million members of the NRA. Why is that? Ever occur to you that most hunters think the NRA is full of bunk?

    Think about it.

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  23. Anonymous -

    So I'm supposed to look at a Cato institute screed, written by a "policy analyst" for the American Petroleum Institute, as the last word on energy subsidies? Joke, right?

    You said your information was from the EIA, which, as I said, was made up. You must really think you're surrounded by suckers.

    And while my low-emissions electricity in San Fran does cost about 5% more than my high-emission counterparts in Texas, it's a wash because the utility bought me a new refrigerator and light bulbs that reduce my energy consumption, thanks to effective decoupling of utility profits from electricity sales.

    Let me know if you want an economics lesson in what that means to graduates of Econ 101.

    You've been drinking the cool-aid on just what, exactly, a "San Francisco liberal" is - in general, we are the world leaders in technological innovation, the domestic capital of venture capitalism and the highest value-per-dollar labor market in the United States.

    Put simply for you: our workers produce more economic value per person than any other workforce in America. That includes you.

    Not that any of that matters to the anti-free-market forces within the GOP who are protecting the oil industry at all costs.

    When the Republic party is ready for capitalism, let me know. As long as you continue to defend nanny-state support for fossil fuels, you're a communist, no two ways about it. Get rid of the subsidies, and let's see who wins.

    And a lot of us "liberals" hunt and fish, too. Conservatives don't have the corner on the 2nd Amendment, my friend. Howard Dean has a 100% rating from the NRA, as does John Tester, Bryan Schweitzer and a host of up-and-coming Democrats. I owe nothing to the conservative movement for my gun rights; my rights come from being an American, and I've never been afraid that anyone would take my gun; not even close.

    Only whack-job wingnuts think that any U.S. politician seriously wants to end our right to hunt. There are 15 million hunters in America, but only 2 million members of the NRA. Why is that? Ever occur to you that most hunters think the NRA is full of bunk?

    Think about it.

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  24. Hey Mateo,

    Your use of logic and evidence might be pointless against someone like Anonymous. I mean when you have publications from the Cato Institute backing you up, what more do you need!

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  25. Anonymous5:32 PM

    If you "highly productive laborers" would look at the report, it references the EIA reported energy subsidies in the first table. Dude, if you were even remotely as skilled as you purport yourself to be, then you'd read first and comment afterwards. No wonder you're so fast - you don't even read, you just go along.

    I'm also laughing because you argue against subsidies yet write, "it's a wash because the utility bought me a new refrigerator and light bulbs that reduce my energy consumption". So it's okay if YOU get subsidized?

    Are you sure you want to go toe-to-toe with me on economic issues, Mr. High-Productivity Energy Man?

    And I trust Democrats on gun issues about as far as I trust McCain trying to capture the southern vote with his rebel flag comment. Seriously, I know gun rights cut across many parties (primarily because of the South and West) but come on, look which party has drafted all of the gun control legislation = Democrats. Just read my other comment about what you have to do to get a gun in NJ. And you're telling me to trust the libs?

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  26. Only a lunatic wingnut could turn a climate change discussion into a NRA rant. Congratulations

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  27. Anonymous Dude -

    The funny thing is, I read the report. The first table is Cato's & API's intentionally misleading reproduction of EIA data.

    The rest of the report discounts, out-of-hand, government data on pollution health costs and military outlays for protection of oil shipping lanes.

    If you really want to understand the true value of oil subsidies, don't take my "liberal" word for it - ask someone you trust - like hard-core right-wing Republican C. Boyden Gray, who served Ronald Reagan and Bush Sr. and was W's pick to be Ambassador to the EU.

    Here's what Gray says about oil subsidies:

    "The study, co-authored by major Republican C. Boyden Gray and published in a conservative law journal out of the University of Texas, alleges that the oil industry is subsidized to the tune of $250 billion a year."

    That's billion with a "B" and per year, as in, each year. But I suspect that now you'll label Gray a "lib" and tell him he doesn't understand economics.

    Be my guest.

    I don't get subsidized by PG&E. My energy bills stay the same month to month, even though I use less electricity because of my more efficient refrigerator; PG&E actually makes a PROFIT by buying me a new refrigerator, because it costs them less to do that than to build a new power plant. They get to pocket the difference, as long as they use some of it to pay the higher cost of renewable energy. I still pay the same amount, they get to make more money.

    It's called decoupling. It's an economic term, thought up by actual energy economists. Which you, obviously, are not.

    What a maroon.

    Cry me a river about getting a gun in NJ. I suppose you think it's stupid that people have to get drivers' licenses, too.

    You're right, Erik - reality, logic and facts are for the rest of us. I'll admit it's useless to use them against this fool, but it sure is fun - like shootin' fish in a barrel! Conservatives make it too easy.

    keep up the good work and be sure to cross-post widely next time Exxon calls you, I'd love to come back for some target practice ...

    peace
    mateo

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  28. Anonymous7:04 PM

    come on fellows, at least you're FINALLY conceding the fact that those were EIA numbers. it's like pulling teeth with you. i'm also sure that you are receiving an low emissions subsidy from the tax payers, not the energy company. could you be anymore ignorant? no.

    and i never said that the industry wasn't subsidized nor did i say that subsidies are not wrong, but so many industries get subsidized even more heavily that i find it interesting you don't target those as well. it all comes full circle to a hate of corporations, capitalism, the current administration and Republicans. OMG you are all so insanely predictable... but don't take my word for it, i'm just a maroon...?

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  29. Anonymous8:44 AM

    Archer Daniels Midland reported a 64% rise in profits last quarter.
    The rising cost of ethenol was a primary cause. Should this company be punished for its increasing profits? Big Oil, Big Corn. Big dilema.

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  30. Thanks for this good post.

    You're right: de-funding the worst climate change denying organizations is not good enough -- they have to actually publically disown them in order to eliminate their credibility in the minds of the large sections of the populace who don't want to accept the issue.

    The people who run these corporations measure their performance in terms of money, and nothing else. Other measures of success -- such as a long and happy life, living in a world that is not flooded with environmental refugees, rich biodiversity, and the continuance of good survival prospects for future generations -- aren't mediated by money. To Cohen, anything that isn't money is just a "moral issue."

    It never ceases to amaze me the way that corporations can separate out a human being's money interests from its survival interests, and satisfy the former at the expense of the latter.

    If it becomes clear that Exxon cannot abide by a solution, then it must be dismantled immediately. In a sane world, the police would have moved in on their headquarters and arrested every member of its board; officials from Greenpeace would be appointed in their place to organize an orderly shut down of every part of the organization that worked against the public interest.

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